Jorge Luis Borges 1976 Interview - Revision history

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	'''Borges: '''No, I remember I was a hedonic reader. I read what I liked. And since my father never made me read anything in particular, he never told me, for instance, "This is ''Don Quixote'' and it's a masterpiece". No, he would let me open the book and read it. And he never discussed literature with me.		'''Borges: '''No, I remember I was a hedonic reader. I read what I liked. And since my father never made me read anything in particular, he never told me, for instance, "This is ''Don Quixote'' and it's a masterpiece". No, he would let me open the book and read it. And he never discussed literature with me.



	===Part 2===		===Part 2===

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	'''Serrano: And as a writer, what do you think of Don Miguel?'''		'''Serrano: And as a writer, what do you think of Don Miguel?'''

	'''Borges: '''Well, I had a conversation with [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernesto_Sabato Ernesto Sábato]. Sábato told me something that I find very right. He says, "It's always said that Cervantes wrote poorly, just as it's always been said that [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fyodor_Dostoyevsky Dostoyevsky] wrote poorly. But if that poor writing served them to leave us ''Don Quixote'' and ''Crime and Punishment'', so to speak, or ''Stepanchikovo'' (The village of…), they didn't write so badly." They wrote what was necessary to meet their ends.		'''Borges: '''Well, I had a conversation with [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernesto_Sabato Ernesto Sábato]. Sábato told me something that I find very right. He says, "It's always said that Cervantes wrote poorly, just as it's always been said that [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fyodor_Dostoyevsky Dostoyevsky] wrote poorly. But if that poor writing served them to leave us ''Don Quixote'' and ''Crime and Punishment'', so to speak, or ''Stepanchikovo'' (The village of…), they didn't write so badly." They wrote what was necessary to meet their ends. It is Sábato's opinion, but I think that... we can't censor what Cervantes wrote from a rhetorical point of view. Of course, Quevedo, could have corrected any page of Cervantes', Don [[wikipedia:Diego_de_Saavedra_Fajardo\|Diego de Saavedra Fajardo]] too, [[wikipedia:Lope_de_Vega\|Lope de Vega]] as well. But they couldn't have written it. It's easy to correct a page, but to writing it is very hard. They wouldn't have been able to write the entire oeuvre.

	~~'''Borges: '''~~It is Sábato's opinion, but I think that... we can't censor what Cervantes wrote from a rhetorical point of view. Of course, Quevedo, could have corrected any page of Cervantes', Don [~~http~~:~~//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/~~Diego_de_Saavedra_Fajardo Diego de Saavedra Fajardo] too, [~~http~~:~~//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/~~Lope_de_Vega Lope de Vega] as well. But they couldn't have written it. It's easy to correct a page, but to writing it is very hard. They wouldn't have been able to write the entire oeuvre.

	'''Serrano: Anyways, didn't you preferred Quevedo? '''		'''Serrano: Anyways, didn't you preferred Quevedo? '''
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	'''Serrano: Which is why you had that governess, Miss Tink.'''		'''Serrano: Which is why you had that governess, Miss Tink.'''
	'''Borges: '''Yes, Miss Tink. And I think a cousin of hers was a famous ''malevo'' (a thug). Tink, the Englishman, a well-known daggerist<ref>The actual word is "cuchilleros", troublemakers who fought with knives</ref>. How odd, Juan Tink. Like a tango with ''corte y quebrada''<ref>''Corte y quebrada'' tango is a style with sudden cuts, breaks and other embellishments: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbIn-GT9w1U ~~http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbIn-GT9w1U]~~.</ref>
			'''Borges: '''Yes, Miss Tink. And I think a cousin of hers was a famous ''malevo'' (a thug). Tink, the Englishman, a well-known daggerist<ref>The actual word is "cuchilleros", troublemakers who fought with knives</ref>. How odd, Juan Tink. Like a tango with ''corte y quebrada''<ref>''Corte y quebrada'' tango is a style with sudden cuts, breaks and other embellishments: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbIn-GT9w1U.</ref>

	'''Serrano: And how was she? Your governess.'''		'''Serrano: And how was she? Your governess.'''
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	'''Serrano: There are many who speak German who will enjoy listening to you.'''		'''Serrano: There are many who speak German who will enjoy listening to you.'''

	'''Borges: '''		'''Borges: '''

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	'''Serrano: What could be a solution, now that you are speaking about the political problems of Argentina—'''		'''Serrano: What could be a solution, now that you are speaking about the political problems of Argentina—'''


	'''Borges: '''I have no solution. I'm not a politician.		'''Borges: '''I have no solution. I'm not a politician.
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	'''Borges: '''Yes, I don't like him. I think Gracián is something like a caricature of Quevedo. Because in Quevedo, the complexity is carried by an impulse or passion, but in Gracián it is very cold, glacial. Besides, calling the stars, "the chicken of celestial fields", that's unforgivable. I believe Gracián is a German superstition, Schopenhauer admired him a lot, but he probably didn't understand him very much. I would go further though. I think Gracián's thoughts were right, he was very sharp, perhaps a man of genius, but while writing, he felt forced to write everything in an ingenious way, with wordplay or trickery. For example, when he says "Life is a militia against malice", well, that may be true, one could spend his whole life fighting evil, but at the same time, when one reads it in Spanish, not in German translated by Schopenhauer, the first thing that comes to mind is the wordplay, "militia" and "malice", and the intention is lost because of the pun. The trickery actually fights the author<ref>Here's Borges' own pun. In Spanish, Gracián's line is "La vida es milicia contra la malicia". Borges uses the same pun to indicate that Gracián's wordplay betrays him or fights back</ref>, because it prevents us from realizing that life is indeed a militia fighting malice, because it's indeed a righteous life, but we are confused by the pun. And that's what happens with Gracián in general. His thoughts were admirable, but when writing, he felt bound to those drawings and symmetries, which are the trademark of the Baroque style, and in this style he was a true master (among the baroque poets), but a master in an unfortunate genre.		'''Borges: '''Yes, I don't like him. I think Gracián is something like a caricature of Quevedo. Because in Quevedo, the complexity is carried by an impulse or passion, but in Gracián it is very cold, glacial. Besides, calling the stars, "the chicken of celestial fields", that's unforgivable. I believe Gracián is a German superstition, Schopenhauer admired him a lot, but he probably didn't understand him very much. I would go further though. I think Gracián's thoughts were right, he was very sharp, perhaps a man of genius, but while writing, he felt forced to write everything in an ingenious way, with wordplay or trickery. For example, when he says "Life is a militia against malice", well, that may be true, one could spend his whole life fighting evil, but at the same time, when one reads it in Spanish, not in German translated by Schopenhauer, the first thing that comes to mind is the wordplay, "militia" and "malice", and the intention is lost because of the pun. The trickery actually fights the author<ref>Here's Borges' own pun. In Spanish, Gracián's line is "La vida es milicia contra la malicia". Borges uses the same pun to indicate that Gracián's wordplay betrays him or fights back</ref>, because it prevents us from realizing that life is indeed a militia fighting malice, because it's indeed a righteous life, but we are confused by the pun. And that's what happens with Gracián in general. His thoughts were admirable, but when writing, he felt bound to those drawings and symmetries, which are the trademark of the Baroque style, and in this style he was a true master (among the baroque poets), but a master in an unfortunate genre.

	'''Serrano: You feel instant rejection for puns, is that so?'''		'''Serrano: You feel instant rejection for puns, is that so?'''

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	'''Serrano: I guess you don't like ''greguerías''<ref>A ''greguería'' is a sort of aphorism, like a one-line joke)</ref> of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramón_Gómez_de_la_Serna Ramón Gómez de la Serna] at all.'''		'''Serrano: I guess you don't like ''greguerías''<ref>A ''greguería'' is a sort of aphorism, like a one-line joke)</ref> of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramón_Gómez_de_la_Serna Ramón Gómez de la Serna] at all.'''

	'''Borges: '''Well, no. I think ''greguerías'' are superior to puns. I mean, the pun is a form of discourtesy. When I'm speaking with someone, I expect the other to be listening to me, to my ideas. But if he is focusing on my words, it's as if he was only paying attention to the sounds. Like when Gracián says that "Comedies are day-eaters"<ref>Another wordplay that does not translate well. "Comedies" means "comedias" in Spanish, and instead of "day-eaters", the word is "come-días"; "comer" means "to eat", and "días" means "days"</ref>, because comedies are a waste of time. Well, you would not be thinking about comedies but rather in the word "comedy". Conversations can be very a nuisance if there are puns.		'''Borges: '''Well, no. I think ''greguerías'' are superior to puns. I mean, the pun is a form of discourtesy. When I'm speaking with someone, I expect the other to be listening to me, to my ideas. But if he is focusing on my words, it's as if he was only paying attention to the sounds. Like when Gracián says that "Comedies are day-eaters"<ref>Another wordplay that does not translate well. "Comedies" means "comedias" in Spanish, and instead of "day-eaters", the word is "come-días"; "comer" means "to eat", and "días" means "days"</ref>, because comedies are a waste of time. Well, you would not be thinking about comedies but rather in the word "comedy". Conversations can be very a nuisance if there are puns.

	'''Serrano: Of course, because you are getting completely off-track. Puns are frivolous escapes—'''		'''Serrano: Of course, because you are getting completely off-track. Puns are frivolous escapes—'''

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	'''Serrano: Yes, that's logic. Let's read another poem because I think you can tell us a lot of yourself. In ''Elogio de la Sombra'' ("In Praise of Darkness") you speak of "Fragments from an Apocryphal Gospel"<ref>This poem is also included in ''[http://www.amazon.com/Borges-Selected-Poems-Jorge-Luis/dp/0140587217 Selected Poems]''. Full English translation [http://sharingknowledgeworldwide.wordpress.com/2009/06/10/fragments-from-an-apocryphal-gospel-jorge-luis-borges/ here]. Spanish original available [http://poemasencastellano.blogspot.com/2006/04/jorge-luis-borges-fragmentos-de-un.html here].</ref>—'''		'''Serrano: Yes, that's logic. Let's read another poem because I think you can tell us a lot of yourself. In ''Elogio de la Sombra'' ("In Praise of Darkness") you speak of "Fragments from an Apocryphal Gospel"<ref>This poem is also included in ''[http://www.amazon.com/Borges-Selected-Poems-Jorge-Luis/dp/0140587217 Selected Poems]''. Full English translation [http://sharingknowledgeworldwide.wordpress.com/2009/06/10/fragments-from-an-apocryphal-gospel-jorge-luis-borges/ here]. Spanish original available [http://poemasencastellano.blogspot.com/2006/04/jorge-luis-borges-fragmentos-de-un.html here].</ref>—'''

	'''Borges: '''Well, I think those are essential things. An apocryphal gospel. There, sort of lays my creed.		'''Borges: '''Well, I think those are essential things. An apocryphal gospel. There, sort of lays my creed.

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	'''Borges: '''Yes, but I don't think one should be overwhelmed by reproaches, to think "I did wrong", because it's a way of insisting in the mistake. If "I did wrong", well, let's forget about it.		'''Borges: '''Yes, but I don't think one should be overwhelmed by reproaches, to think "I did wrong", because it's a way of insisting in the mistake. If "I did wrong", well, let's forget about it.

	'''Serrano: "Blessed are the meek, for they do not agree to disagree. / Blessed are those who do not hunger for justice, for they know that our fate, for better or worse, is the work of chance, which is past understanding". '''		'''Serrano: "Blessed are the meek, for they do not agree to disagree. / Blessed are those who do not hunger for justice, for they know that our fate, for better or worse, is the work of chance, which is past understanding". '''

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	'''Borges: '''Yes, there were no tourists back then. I was the first tourist, a sad honor though. ''(Laughs)''		'''Borges: '''Yes, there were no tourists back then. I was the first tourist, a sad honor though. ''(Laughs)''

	Serrano: You wrote some books in Spain which weren’t published—		'''Serrano: You wrote some books in Spain which weren’t published—'''

	'''Borges: '''It was only reasonable not to publish them.		'''Borges: '''It was only reasonable not to publish them.
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	'''Borges: '''Yes, only the title remained, which is not so bad. Besides, two Arabic words<ref>Both Spanish words, "naipe" and "tahúr", have Arabic roots</ref>, it doesn't sound so bad.		'''Borges: '''Yes, only the title remained, which is not so bad. Besides, two Arabic words<ref>Both Spanish words, "naipe" and "tahúr", have Arabic roots</ref>, it doesn't sound so bad.

	'''Serrano: One of your stories was rejected in the journal ''La Esfera'' ("The Sphere")<ref>It was actually a Spanish magazine that ran from 1914 to 1920. Not to be confused with the Venezuelan newspaper of the same title.</ref>; I don’t know if this happened to you more than once.'''		'''Serrano: One of your stories was rejected in the journal ''La Esfera'' ("The Sphere")<ref>It was actually a Spanish magazine that ran from 1914 to 1920. Not to be confused with the Venezuelan newspaper of the same title.</ref>; I don’t know if this happened to you more than once.'''

	'''Borges: '''I'm not sure if it happened more than once, but it surely didn't happen in the magazine ''La Esfera'', rather in others. (Laughs) But there's nothing special about it…		'''Borges: '''I'm not sure if it happened more than once, but it surely didn't happen in the magazine ''La Esfera'', rather in others. (Laughs) But there's nothing special about it…

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	'''Borges: '''Yes, which is what happened with Anglo-Saxon, or Old English. I resolved to study it and now I know a little. And recently I started learning Old Scandinavian, the Old Icelandic.		'''Borges: '''Yes, which is what happened with Anglo-Saxon, or Old English. I resolved to study it and now I know a little. And recently I started learning Old Scandinavian, the Old Icelandic.

	'''Serrano: You have a prodigious memory, can you remember your own verses?'''		'''Serrano: You have a prodigious memory, can you remember your own verses'''

	'''Borges: '''Yes.		'''Borges: '''Yes.

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	'''Serrano: Not because your mind is not a mind is not of genius and cosmic proportions, but because you also are a living body. And as such, you are a sensitive being. You've been accused of being a cold man—'''		'''Serrano: Not because your mind is not a mind is not of genius and cosmic proportions, but because you also are a living body. And as such, you are a sensitive being. You've been accused of being a cold man—'''

	'''Borges: '''No, that is ~~untrue~~. I'm... unpleasantly sentimental. I'm very sensitive. When I write, of course, I try to, well, to have a certain pudency. And as I write through symbols and I never openly confess, people think this algebra means... coldness. But it's not like that. It's the complete opposite. This algebra is a form of pudency... and emotion, of course.		'''Borges: '''No, that is not true. I'm... unpleasantly sentimental. I'm very sensitive. When I write, of course, I try to, well, to have a certain pudency. And as I write through symbols and I never openly confess, people think this algebra means... coldness. But it's not like that. It's the complete opposite. This algebra is a form of pudency... and emotion, of course.

	'''Serrano: I think that turning feelings into mathematics is something very complex and very beautiful.'''		'''Serrano: I think that turning feelings into mathematics is something very complex and very beautiful.'''

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	'''Borges:''' Yes.		'''Borges:''' Yes.

	'''Serrano: People that ~~knows~~ you for your work—'''		'''Serrano: People that know you for your work—'''

	'''Borges:''' Spain is very generous.		'''Borges:''' Spain is very generous.

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	===Part 1===		===Part 1===

	'''Joaquín Soler Serrano (Host): Today we are happy ~~for having~~ achieved one of our goals since the beginning of this show, which was to have Maestro Jorge Luis Borges honoring us and filling our spirit with joy. El Maestro Borges, has honored us coming from Argentina to chat with us for a long time. He has imposed no conditions. He has asked us to spur him and to harass him. Maestro, we are willing to harass you lovingly—'''		'''Joaquín Soler Serrano (Host): Today we are happy to have achieved what has been one of our goals since the beginning of this show, which was to have Maestro Jorge Luis Borges honoring us and filling our spirit with joy. El Maestro Borges, has honored us coming from Argentina to chat with us for a long time. He has imposed no conditions. He has asked us to spur him and to harass him. Maestro, we are willing to harass you lovingly—'''

	'''Jorge Luis Borges:''' Why, heh... I'm very timid, so I hope there's I can be worthy of your time...		'''Jorge Luis Borges:''' Why, heh... I'm very timid, so I hope there's I can be worthy of your time...

imported>Watashi sama at 10:56, 28 January 2016

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	==References:==		==References:==
	<references/>		<references/>
			[[Category:Spanish]]

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	'''Serrano: What could be a solution, now that you are speaking about the political problems of Argentina—'''		'''Serrano: What could be a solution, now that you are speaking about the political problems of Argentina—'''


	'''Borges: '''I have no solution. I'm not a politician.		'''Borges: '''I have no solution. I'm not a politician.

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	'''Borges: '''Yes, but "door" is better, don't you think? The metaphor was properly chosen. If I wrote "the road", it wouldn't sound good.		'''Borges: '''Yes, but "door" is better, don't you think? The metaphor was properly chosen. If I wrote "the road", it wouldn't sound good.


	===Part 4===		===Part 4===

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	'''Borges: '''No, that was my other grandmother. No, this one died in Buenos Aires. However, how grand that she could foresee her own death, from far away, "a very old woman, who's dying too slowly". "An old woman who's dying very very slowly, that's all" (In English). That's all. Nevertheless, the house was in uproar.		'''Borges: '''No, that was my other grandmother. No, this one died in Buenos Aires. However, how grand that she could foresee her own death, from far away, "a very old woman, who's dying too slowly". "An old woman who's dying very very slowly, that's all" (In English). That's all. Nevertheless, the house was in uproar.

	'''Serrano: Those have been some of your obsessions, and also your intellectual concerns. Life and death, ~~infinite~~, mortality, the serenity…'''		'''Serrano: Those have been some of your obsessions, and also your intellectual concerns. Life and death, infinity, mortality, the serenity…'''

	'''Borges: '''Excuse me, can I be indiscreet? Can I speak of the death of my other grandmother?		'''Borges: '''Excuse me, can I be indiscreet? Can I speak of the death of my other grandmother?
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	'''Serrano: You are Borges.'''		'''Serrano: You are Borges.'''

	'''Borges: '''It can't be ~~help~~ ''(he laughs)''.		'''Borges: '''It can't be helped ''(he laughs)''.

	'''Serrano: However, you spent years submerged in the poetry of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stéphane_Mallarmé Mallarmé], you love—'''		'''Serrano: However, you spent years submerged in the poetry of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stéphane_Mallarmé Mallarmé], you love—'''
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	'''Borges: '''Yes, I gave several conferences about him in the United States, about the extraordinary experiment of his. The idea was to write an epic of democracy. I mean, an epic without a main character, but where everyone was a main character. A democratic idea. And there's Walt Whitman as a character. Who's partially him, a portion of him or his projection, but there's also the reader, and every future reader. The Walt Whitman character in ''Leaves of Grass'' is a very strange character. Because the character is not the journalist who wrote the poem, he is many people simultaneously. He is the author, his projection and each reader. In the book he speaks of a Walt Whitman on several occasions. He says "What do you see, Walt Whitman", "What do you hear, Walt Whitman". He's talking about the reader. I mean, each and every one of us, when reading ''Leaves of Grass'', becomes a character of Walt Whitman. It's a very curious experiment. Perhaps the most remarkable ever done in the history of literature. And by a great poet too.		'''Borges: '''Yes, I gave several conferences about him in the United States, about the extraordinary experiment of his. The idea was to write an epic of democracy. I mean, an epic without a main character, but where everyone was a main character. A democratic idea. And there's Walt Whitman as a character. Who's partially him, a portion of him or his projection, but there's also the reader, and every future reader. The Walt Whitman character in ''Leaves of Grass'' is a very strange character. Because the character is not the journalist who wrote the poem, he is many people simultaneously. He is the author, his projection and each reader. In the book he speaks of a Walt Whitman on several occasions. He says "What do you see, Walt Whitman", "What do you hear, Walt Whitman". He's talking about the reader. I mean, each and every one of us, when reading ''Leaves of Grass'', becomes a character of Walt Whitman. It's a very curious experiment. Perhaps the most remarkable ever done in the history of literature. And by a great poet too.


	===Part 3===		===Part 3===

imported>AnonTK at 05:22, 22 September 2010

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	[[File:Borgespic.jpg\|thumb\|220px\|right]]		[[File:Borgespic.jpg\|thumb\|220px\|right]]
	In 1976 and 1980, '''Jorge Luis Borges''' gave two interviews for the Spanish TV show '''''A Fondo''''' (English: "Thoroughly") hosted by journalist Joaquín Soler Serrano. The talk show was famous in the late 1970s for its interviews of several art, literature, and sciences celebrities.<br />		In 1976 and 1980, '''Jorge Luis Borges''' gave two interviews for the Spanish TV show '''''A Fondo''''' (English: "Thoroughly") hosted by journalist Joaquín Soler Serrano. The talk show was famous in the late 1970s for its interviews of several art, literature, and sciences celebrities.<br />
	Some of guests that appeared on ''A Fondo'' are Julio Cortázar, Salvador Dalí, Roman Polanski, Bernardo Bertolucci, Yehudi Menuhin, Manuel Puig, among others.		Some of the guests that appeared on ''A Fondo'' are Julio Cortázar, Salvador Dalí, Roman Polanski, Bernardo Bertolucci, Yehudi Menuhin, Manuel Puig, among others.


	==Translation Notes==		==Translation Notes==
	The translation of the one and half-hour interview was done by me, a friendly anon from Argentina. As English is not my first language you'll probably find some grammar mistakes and words that sound a bit artificial. Spanish is also a difficult language to translate from as its grammar differs a good deal from English. Plus, Borges was 77 years at the time and some portions of the dialogue were inaudible.		The translation of the one and half-hour interview was done by me, a friendly anon from Argentina. As English is not my first language you'll probably find some grammar mistakes and words that sound a bit artificial. Spanish is also a difficult language to translate from as its grammar differs a good deal from English. Plus, Borges was 77 years at the time and some portions of the dialogue were inaudible.

imported>AnonTK: /* Translation Notes */

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Translation Notes

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	Even though I proofed this translation a couple of times, feel free to edit this page if you find any weird or broken English phrasing.		Even though I proofed this translation a couple of times, feel free to edit this page if you find any weird or broken English phrasing.

			You can mail me at: anon.of.miyamoto(at)gmail.com if you feel like it.

	==The Interview==		==The Interview==